ar en de ru tr
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Keyword
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Converting to İslam

Bookmark and Share

Re:Converting to İslam 9 years 5 months ago #7599

  • Murkey
  • Murkey's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Caycı
  • Posts: 8486
  • Thank you received: 2707
  • Karma: 22
Alibaster11 wrote:
Well I apologize for not seeing this earlier, but I'm not a frequenter of any of my social sites (nor am I trying to make myself sound like I've got "better stuff to do" cuz in all honesty I'm just lazy...). I can say that this topic is either overly frowned upon in friendly conversation or aggressively beaten in others.

Great post Alibaster11, thanks for your comments and I don't believe in any kind of censorship or doing the whole "walking on eggshells" thing, as I've said before anyone on AE can express whatever they want, the only things I would ever censor is things that the Turkish government could ban the site for (as Id like to stay online!) unfortunately that list is growing daily but we do have a members only category for "controversial" topics :)

I must agree with Steve that science has always given more answers (and questions) than any religion, people often use the "scientific theory" remark to try and degrade a scientific idea but a scientific theory is not the same as a theory!

A scientific theory is a collection of evidence and facts that a logical and reasonable (and peer reviewed) potential conclusion is reached, its not a "best guess" as some people seem to think, its saying "we know x amount which means its likely this happened but we are still collecting evidence and FACTS".

Your example about the universe appearing from nowhere is a perfect point, I am studying Theoretical Physics and it is entirely possible to create matter from nothing,when we are talking about such events we cant use the classical physics model that controls the laws above atomic level, we know them pretty well.

Quantum level events such as zero point energy (the lowest base energy state of quantum particles in a vacuum) and Heisenbergs uncertainty principals implies that dark energy is popping in and out of existence all the time, keeping a balance but basically matter is being created from nothing, I wont go into the details and maths of how but its there to research for anyone who wants to.

So science can and is explaining how the universe was "born" even though there was "nothing" before, the "theory/story" is getting more detailed the more we learn.

Show me a religion that constantly adds to its knowledge, changes with new discoveries and pushes us on to discover. It cant, its stuck with 1500 year old books that are the immutable "word of god" so believers have to make excuses for the mistakes (the bible still states the world is flat and the sun goes round the earth yet how many Christians believe it?).

Another of your points Id like to address is that of the "coincidences" of life, it is a series of coincidences and it is amazing but I think people fail to comprehend the time spans involved.

The universe is estimated to be around 12-14 BILLION years old (that's 9 zeros), earth has existed for around 100 million years - that's 0.7% of the time the universe has existed. Mankind has existed for around 50,000 years - that's 0.00035% of the time the universe has existed. Your life doesn't even register on a universal timescale, the calculator I used has only 14 decimal places and it ran out of zeros calculating the % of time your life is compared to life of the universe but its obviously completely insignificant!

When put in the correct perspective these "coincidences don't seem so amazing (Unless like a lot of religions you believe the universe is 6000 years old in which case, I'm sorry but with all due respect (ie: not much) you're a nutter! There wouldn't even be any point in showing the millions of pieces of evidence that would make that thinking insane, but if otherwise rational adults can convince themselves there is an invisible man living in the sky as their invisible friend then I suppose this isn't a huge leap!)

Science IS the miracle, we are here through an amazing string of random events, that doesn't mean there's no purpose, again, quantum mechanics and theoretical physics is breaking down the barriers between spirituality, philosophy and science, I'm a very spiritual person, I started studying theoretical physics after wanting to find about ghosts, I got my answer, I don't have to "believe" anything or have "faith" in anything, I know science has the answer for everything, we are getting there in leaps and bounds and now the new sciences are unravelling secrets we formerly contributed to religion, philosophy and the paranormal is not a "sterilising" of spirituality, quite the opposite, its an exciting new field throwing up just as many questions as answers.

But like any good scientist (or realist) I would just say to anyone, if you believe that the universe was created by a higher power or there is an intelligence behind the "design" you're dead right! But its not anything like your holy book has told you, its so much more amazing and beautiful, its simply nature, so revel in it, revel in how lucky you are to be here and exist (you were the 1 sperm from the tens of thousands that got there first! You yourself are a fantastic "accident").

We may all have a purpose but look for it in the right places.

Peace out.

Mack
"Because none of us are as cruel as all of us"
Last Edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Murkey. Reason: cant spell
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re:Converting to İslam 9 years 5 months ago #7601

  • Murkey
  • Murkey's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Caycı
  • Posts: 8486
  • Thank you received: 2707
  • Karma: 22
Steve wrote:
But I think these quotes from Ataturk sum it up best:

"We do not consider our principles as dogmas contained in books that are said to come from heaven. We derive our inspiration, not from heaven, or from an unseen world, but directly from life."
* Statement (1 November 1937)

"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men."

[Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928)

:flagturkey:

Fantastic quotes Steve thanks, shame theyre ignored at the moment, perhaps we should make some huge banners with these on and hang them outside every governors office and AKP headquarters?
"Because none of us are as cruel as all of us"
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re:Converting to İslam 9 years 5 months ago #7603

  • Alibaster11
  • Alibaster11's Avatar
  • Offline
  • People Person
  • Posts: 40
  • Thank you received: 17
  • Karma: 2
Thanks for the replies folks. I was hoping to stir up something on the topic because it was ripe for the picking. I just want to clarify some stuff that you may not have gotten from my ramblings.

First of all, I mentioned somewhere in there that I have rebuked all things having to do with religion and that the only thıng which I have not been able to come to terms with is the whole creator thing.

Again I used the word ''God'' but also made clear that he is not some old dude with a beard sitting on high and writing our destinies.

I totally agree and am a staunch supporter of science and in fact believe that science is the true path to finding the answers to the questions people ask of their religious figures.

Once I started writing I realized that to properly explain everything that I have got goiong on in my head about the subject would take me far into the night and probably next morning.

So I'm glad (and actually quite pathetically have been awaiting replies) to see that there are some very enlightened thinkers out there.

I also have beef with the religious institutions and there current stance against science. There once was a time when religion actually spurred on science and they were closely related. Then something happened where ultra conservativeism took over and strict application of what the ''books'' say was enforced and scientists were ostrasized. Bloody conflict ensued and the 2 parties have been unable to reconcile it.

Science moved forward and religion has stagnated while surprisingly keeping a strong following.

Anywho I have a tendency to lose focus while writing on these things and I'm sure a face to face conversation of all of this would be much more productive.

AH I have to get back to some work, but to reiterate...

In my opinion ''God' does not equal ''Old man with beard'' but something much more encompassing of the energy of the universe. I just don't know what a word for that would be but spiritualism and tapping into that energy on some level is something that I definately believe in and think we can also have a conversation about as I believe it was something you were alluding to Mack.

Cheers
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re:Converting to İslam 9 years 5 months ago #7607

  • andytdn
  • andytdn's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sultan
  • Posts: 598
  • Thank you received: 225
  • Karma: 13
Hi Folks
I think religion is like a placebo. If you think its going to do some good for you and make you a better person, then it will.

Take care Andy
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re:Converting to İslam 9 years 5 months ago #7609

  • Murkey
  • Murkey's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Caycı
  • Posts: 8486
  • Thank you received: 2707
  • Karma: 22
:) Sorry, it was the G word that got the hackles up but i understand now :)

Im really interested in the blurring boundaries of the new sciences and the "paranormal" events that are now being explained (not debunked, confirmed and explained why!) the whole journey through the studying has been fascinating and if anyones interested perhaps its worth starting another thread as so many subjects can be explained in ways that philosophy and religion have never done:-

Consciousness
"Past Lives"
Ghosts/Spirits/Energies
Telepathy

and loads more, I wont bore anyone now but we could take it to a different thread if anyones interested :)

Or just come out on a friday night to Adi Bar, anytime after midnight (or 5 vodkas, whichever comes sooner) the quantum mechanics stories start flowing :)
"Because none of us are as cruel as all of us"
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Re:Converting to İslam 9 years 5 months ago #7633

  • tanju
  • tanju's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sultan
  • Posts: 848
  • Thank you received: 606
  • Karma: 15
Paranormal,ghosts etc Great topic Mack a must do.I have some experiences of my own that I can share,even have interesting footage from the web that'll make most people think twice:))
The administrator has disabled public write access.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.251 seconds